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The Four Lines

Workshop Log

The Raw and (almost) Unexpurgated Log

bashoo: great, now i get to sit up here...
can: yes
cy: king of the mountain
bashoo: great...
bashoo: in last month's workshop
bashoo: we set an aim
bashoo: to build a small web site
bashoo: with the results of our workshop
bashoo: which i only yesterday
bashoo: finally got posted at the canteen workshop site
bashoo: did anyone have a chance to see that yet?
eric: y
can: yes
ompen: n
p&d: n
Guest 9: n
mike: n
cy: not yet
bashoo: you can see it at
bashoo: www.slimeworld.org/canteen/workshop/ws08wthw.html
bashoo: pithy name, eh?
Guest 9: yes
eric: quite
cy: y
bashoo: but i'd like to follow the same format this time
bashoo: since this is a workshop
bashoo: we're building something here
bashoo: the experience of the workshop itself
bashoo: but also an artifact to leave behind
bashoo: in the form of some web pages
bashoo: which might be of value to someone else...
bashoo: the other element
bashoo: i think is essential here
bashoo: is that our contributions be real and practical for us
bashoo: i would call this a "work in the world" workshop
bashoo: so anyway
bashoo: whatever you say here after these introductions
bashoo: can and will be used against you
can: :)
ompen: haa
bashoo: hi gordita!
Guest 9: yes, especially for those of us not in Ca.
bashoo: so let's begin with one of those great workshop exercises
bashoo: and we'll "do the four lines"
bashoo: together
bashoo: like really meaning it...
bashoo: all phenomena is illusion.
can: All phenomena is illusion
eric: ALL PHENOMENA IS ILLUSION
Guest 9: all phenomena is illusion
ompen: All phenomena is illusion
mike: all phenomena is illusion
bashoo: neither attracted nor repelled,
can: Neither attracted nor repelled,
ompen: neither attracted nor repelled
Gordita: All phenoma is illusion
p&d: all phenonemna is illusion
cy: all phenomena is illusion
mike: neither attracted nor repelled
eric: neither attracted nor repelled
Guest 9: neither attracted nor repelled
Gordita: neither attracted nor repeled
p&d: neither attracted nor repelled
can: Not making any sudden moves
eric: not making any sudden moves
ompen: not making any sudden moves
cy: neither attracted nor repelled
bashoo: not making any sudden moves
p&d: not making any sudden moves
Guest 9: not making any sudden moves
eric: my habits will carry me through
cy: not making any sudden moves
mike: not making any sudden moves
Gordita: not making anysudden moves
bashoo: my habits will carry me through
p&d: my habits will carry me through
can: my habits will carry me through
ompen: my habits will carry me through
Guest 9: my habits will carry me through.
cy: my habits will carry me through.
mike: my habits will carry me through
Gordita: my habits will carry me through
bashoo: so my question
bashoo: to the assembled group here
bashoo: is
bashoo: what would you want someone else to know
bashoo: about the "four lines"?
ompen: that the "habits" are built in the life and not a birthright
Guest 9: They are a tool for navigating the bardo: ron
Gordita: they are true
bashoo: true is good
bashoo: so for navigating the bardo
bashoo: how do you use that now
p&d: gratitudinously impartial presence and attention is part of the habits
Guest 9: That our patterns of repulsion and attraction form an identity pattern. tm
Gordita: that neither attraction nor repulsion matters
bashoo: yes, our attractions and repulsions
bashoo: certainly are part of our ordinary identity
cy: realizing that "reality" is relative live the truth of the circumstance without attachment to out come
cy: .
bashoo: my habits will carry me through...
Gordita: that sudden moves are not helpful
bashoo: i'm sure we've all been burnt by those
Guest 9: y
bashoo: otherwise, i wouldn't be where i am today
Gordita: and that personal or intellectual development is bardo0ically useless...
bashoo: like right here?
eric: y
Guest 9: y
Gordita: depends on whose here
Guest 9: or if Who is here.
Gordita: y
p&d: no sudden moves like a floating recliner
bashoo: not even any real decisions
bashoo: about our lives
Gordita: to get anywhere without sudden moves, you have to be REAL persisitent
bashoo: one focus
Guest 9: it becomes moving by intent of being rather then machne action.
Guest 9: non linear, non plot line.
bashoo: we think there's a plot line (i do)
Guest 9: y
bashoo: or that someone's plotting it (i hope)
Guest 9: but being 'here' reminds us it's not/ or they're not.
Gordita: All phenomena is illusion- not just the bad stuff-
bashoo: yes, the good stuff is really the trap
cy: patitent with self and all else, not trying to make things happen is necessary
Guest 9: can i tell a tibetan story about this?
bashoo: please...
Guest 9: Marpa continually told his students
Guest 9: that all phenomena is illusion
Guest 9: then one day his son died.
Gordita: ouch
Guest 9: He screamed, wept, and grieved for days.
Guest 9: His students were horrified.
Guest 9: They said to Marpa, "You said it's all illusion. Why are
Guest 9: you carrying on so much?"
Guest 9: He replied
Guest 9: "It is illusion, but this is a SUper ILLUSION>
Guest 9: .
Guest 9: end
bashoo: just knowing it in our minds
bashoo: isn't enough
Gordita: It has to sink down
Guest 9: David p. just said that it comes back to question of emotion.
Gordita: to where it can determine our actions
Guest 9: What is the relation of emotion to the illusion?
bashoo: David P - could you elaborate on that "question of emotion"
Gordita: ?
Guest 9: The question that p and d raised earlier. Would you
Guest 9: repeat it for group, pandd?
p&d: one second
p&d: there were two questions
p&d: what do I work on first, wakening the machine or emotions
p&d: 2nd, is working with others the way to open the heart?
Gordita: To me, that is the same work- No real emotions- just habitual sensations- occur until some development occurs-
Gordita: The four lines help me remember that my "feelings"
Gordita: are not real or useful
bashoo: but our feelings
bashoo: what we call our emotions
bashoo: are very powerful parts of the machine
bashoo: when we buy into them
bashoo: we're not awake
bashoo: so we're back to the four lines
p&d: david, how do you view the question?
bashoo: i don't think we have the luxury
bashoo: of deciding what to do first
Gordita: y
bashoo: or at least
bashoo: i don't know enough
bashoo: to strategize my own work
bashoo: in that kind of detail
bashoo: and i suspect
bashoo: you never can
Guest 9: how is the higher emotional center activated?
bashoo: so part of our work
bashoo: to awaken the machine
p&d: y
bashoo: details with the "emotions"
bashoo: and seeing them as illusion
eric: Nine, pwos chapter one talks about this, no?
bashoo: which is?
eric: head brain/tail brain
bashoo: sure
Gordita: I just thought of that story of the emporer's new clothes
eric: activtion of real emotional centre
eric: go on Gordita
Gordita: Too much emphasis on emotion
Gordita: or personal development
Gordita: is like the king going back to the palace after his shock
Gordita: FIRMLY resolved
Gordita: to find a better tailor
Gordita: rather than
Gordita: to learn how to rule
Gordita: ?
Guest 9: But the SUPER ILLUSION evokes higher emotional center
bashoo: i'd like some better emotions, too
p&d: popcorn vs awkening? what difference? super illusion?
p&d: popcorn vs machine awakening?
eric: i may be slow here but I didn't understand
eric: that story
eric: as describing higher emotion
eric: did it/
eric: ?
bashoo: i thought it was a great story
bashoo: here's what i got
bashoo: "i'd like some better emotions, too"
bashoo: a better tailor
bashoo: rather than
bashoo: not buying into those emotions
bashoo: and emphasis on emotions in our work
bashoo: can be driven by the desire
bashoo: for self-enhancement
bashoo: a better suit of emotions
bashoo:
p&d: changing self enhancement is a toughy
p&d: how?
p&d: its deep
p&d: who am I?
ompen: there is a way
ompen: to recognise
ompen: the sleep of the machine
ompen: we begin
ompen: by observing the physical
ompen: just exactly
ompen: because its mechanical
ompen: manefestations
ompen: are slow
ompen: and can be observed
ompen: as mechanical
ompen: with time
Gordita: comparatively
ompen: right g
ompen: the intellect
ompen: which is also
ompen: a body of mechanical
ompen: habit
ompen: is a wee bit faster
ompen: and more difficult
ompen: to "focus" on
ompen: and the "emotions"
ompen: also mechanical
ompen: are faster yet
ompen: in many cases
ompen: ppl spend
ompen: the life
ompen: trying to catch up to
ompen: the meotions
ompen: emotions
eric: hey, all phenomena is ilusion, except my wife, the car and my self esteem...
ompen: heheh
cy: hehe
Gordita: chortle
bashoo: that's it...
bashoo: and maybe marpa's son...
eric: y
Guest 9: y
eric: haha
Gordita: I keep remembering
Gordita: that what is real doesn't change
Gordita: and that's that for MY emotions...
bashoo: they change?
ompen: and what's real... can be known
cy: I laughed at the "except my ..." joke but
ompen: exactly by its unchangeble quality
Gordita: but?
cy: ok
cy: it's difficult
Gordita: courage, sister
eric: of course
cy: to not be
eric: it's difficult.
cy: attracted
cy: "."
cy: to
cy: my son
cy: to
cy: not
cy: attach
cy: not easy.
cy: end
eric: it's funny cy
eric: but in a really practical
eric: sense,
eric: the atachment
eric: to our kids
eric: doesn't really do them good
cy: i know
eric: the good we want for them...
Gordita: EJ addrsses that specifically in Secret talks
cy: do not have "Talks
eric: which one?
Guest 9: y, go on
Gordita: about a kid as an external center of gravity
eric: right
eric: right
bashoo: i remember the event
Gordita: and how that blocks the parent's work
bashoo: and ej was speaking to a woman
Gordita: AND the kid"s
Gordita: y
cy: yes!
cy: this happened
cy: to me when
Gordita: like you casn't "USE" your kid
Gordita: it isn't lawful
Guest 9: tell us about event bashoo, please.
Gordita: when?
bashoo: i have had one experience recently
bashoo: in my office
bashoo: related here
bashoo: i have been trying to give away responsibilities
bashoo: and i had a new manager
bashoo: to give some of my work to
bashoo: and then i saw him moderating meetings
bashoo: which used to be my meetings
Gordita: oh boy
bashoo: and it grabbed me more than i thought it would
bashoo: it really was an experience of
bashoo: "dying before you die"
bashoo: i had to remind myself
bashoo: that i had asked for it
bashoo: unfortunately
bashoo: each time i have tried to give away responsibilities
bashoo: they come back, and more...
Guest 9: y
cy: may I share an experience related to what ellen was saying?
bashoo: great. go ahead
cy: my son and i, justin,
cy: where
cy: performing in the play
cy: "A Raisin in the Sun"
cy: my inability to detach
cy: almost got him fired
cy: I was so "concerned" with him
cy: that I wasn't doing MY job
cy: I see and am working on
cy: that
cy: problem, weakness, whatever?
cy: in our lives
cy: so that I am
cy: no longer a risk to
cy: either of our work
cy: end
Guest 9: yes, there is a machine identification rather then
Guest 9: a true seeing and acknowledging of the ageless being
Guest 9: of the "child" whose just happens to be with us.
Gordita: "Habit"-- I wonder what would happen if one "read" [ABD] for all those fragmentary deaths of not-self?
Guest 9: interesting idea
Guest 9: Thats one reason i like
Guest 9: Dru's bardo calendar kit.
Guest 9: You roll dice to find out where you are in the bardos
bashoo: haven't seen it...
Guest 9: and then you read backwards to the Clear Light.
Guest 9: Y, it should
Guest 9: be available to us thru
Guest 9: institute but it is carried. ADAM has it though.
bashoo: neat!
p&d: 9 ? super illusion and emotion clarification ...was there more to your view?
Guest 9: isn't carried. sorry
Guest 9: n
Gordita: ADAM?
bashoo: we're coming up on the end of our time together
Guest 9: Ancient Dance and Music org. by Dru.
bashoo: so if anyone else has a story
bashoo: they'd like to contribute here
can: yes,
can: yesterday, some of you were here
can: when Marshall Law
can: busted in on us
Gordita: y
can: who was here?
eric: y
ompen: i was
Guest 9: y
p&d: here
cy: y
can: that was an four lines time for me
eric: don't forget sexy gumby
Gordita: y
cy: oh y
can: yes but he wasn't
Gordita: but much lower key
can: as violent
Guest 9: ysexy was well behaved
ompen: four lines time?
cy: marsh was the big bardo moment though
can: I got the chance to notice
can: that "I" was not the blue head
can: that "I" was here
can: in a room
can: separate really from the character in the screen
can: and that Marshall Law could not do anything
can: to me or any of us
ompen: i didnt think any one gave ol Marsh the time of day
Gordita: may be his only contact with the work in this lifetime...
ompen: i thought it was blown totally
can: so because of this
can: method of work
can: the phenomena as illusion leaked in for a moment
can: ...
can: thank-you
Gordita: unfriendly guide
bashoo: thank you...
eric: good can
Guest 9: thank you and a bow to bashoo
can: thank-you, bashoo for this wonderful workshop
Gordita: thnks bashoo
eric: gracias david
cy: thank you bashoo
p&d: y t hanks
mike: thanks bashoo
bashoo: thank you all -- last call for immortal "four lines" stories
Guest 9: y,
Guest 9: just remember the basic mantra
Guest 9: everything that we deal with is either
Guest 9: yum or yuck.
Gordita: All phenomena is...
bashoo: that's great... i hadn't heard that formulation... but i like it...
eric: neither yum nor yuk
Guest 9: y
p&d: fast
bashoo: so can, are we ready for our next event, or what?
Gordita: y
can: yes, we are
can: pe is here

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